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How I feel about 8BitMMO + some feedback


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#1 El Dromedario

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Posted 11 November 2016 - 04:21 PM

How I feel about 8BitMMO
Hello, it is me again. I am posting this because I feel bad for the sorrow state of the game right now. I hope this post will help somewhat, it's all I can do really. This will probably be my last post in a while if not the last post forever. When I browse through the forums here I sense a lot of tension between Robby and the players. And it is sad that the game has come down to this.
 

To the players, you have to understand that Robby is kinda done with the game. He put a lot of effort and money into the game but the game sadly never caught on. New updates never led to an increase of player activity. Although the releases on Kongregate and Steam caused spikes in player activity, they were never be able to stick to the game and so the activity quickly whittled down to its original state. Combine that with the fact that Robby had trouble with players misbehaving and it is understandable that Robby has lost motivation to keep working on the game. He must be just as dissappointed as you are.

 

To Robby, you seem very irritated in your posts. I know you've had a lot of trouble with certain bad apples but the majority of this community just want to play the game and want to see the game grow. They may be complaining a lot but that is not to nag you but they do it because they care about the game, they want to make it better. Even after all these months without updates they are still playing the game and try to make the best out of it. Would they really do that if they hate you and your game?
 

I know you've had a harsh time and had some not so nice people to deal with the last couple of years but don't let that bring you down. I wish you all the best with your life and your future game projects! This will probably my last post in a while so I have one more thing to say: If you ever decide to get back to 8BitMMO or start a new game project make sure to send out an e-mail because I am still on your mailing list.

 

 

 

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Feedback
Ok, after that, I just want to give some feedback about the game. Maybe it is too late for 8BitMMO now but I hope it will still be useful for when you make another game.

 

Content

There is not enough content. I'm not even talking about complex features like transponders, just simple content like blocks. There are not enough blocks, not enough levels, not enough player customisations, not enough mobs, not enough weapons etc.

Since building is the main aspect of the game, it is important that the game has a big variety of blocks. It took years before we even had all the basic colours of the rainbow :I

Apart from blocks I think more levels is the most important. Players need some long-term goals so there will be a reason to keep playing the game. Think about Runescape where you can level up to level 99, that's something that takes at least months to do. Right now you can reach max level by spamming spacebar for just a few hours. Every level you should unlock a few blocks and items. And maybe a small reward along with that, something like a heap of gold or maybe even 1 plat every five levels.

 

Half-baked features
There are a lot of of half baked features in the game. Features that aren't as fun as they could potentially be. I think it is better to focus on one feature and polish it until it is truly playable and also fun to do so. I am talking about dungeons, quests, combat system, PvP, building (more options to make building easier), transponder matches and managing towns (assigning places for citizens to build for example).

 

Visuals
I have to be honest here, the visuals in this game are not good. There is actually a lot more work to do here. Maybe you should hire a designer or a game artist, someone who knows what makes a game attractive visually. Graphics are important for a game and especially in a building game such as this where the players have to show off their creations. Also, the first impression matters so it is important that the game looks fun when you are browsing through Steam for example or when you first open the game.

There are a lot of different aspects when it comes to visuals. First I want to talk about the game itself, how the world looks like when you are playing the game. Right now the world can look confusing, especially when someone has made a complex building. It is hard to see depth and you can't tell if a block is near you or far away from you. Shadows should help with this but they are pretty buggy and are slow to load. Enabling fancy FX also helps but that makes the game extremely laggy. 9BitMMO alleviates most of these problems but it still has it's own problems like a wonky perspective and weird looking furniture.

I also think the texture of the blocks may need some work. The textures are pretty bland most of the time, they need some more detail in them. Especially blocks like concrete.

The player avatar looks awkward and out of place. It is a flat 2-D figure in a 3-D world. Some might say you can't change the iconic black 'n white dude that represents 8BitMMO but I think it needs to be changed.

The user interface and windows are really dull. It's just a grey box with white buttons. A designer would really help here.

Player feedback. Players need more visual feedback on what they are doing and what is going on in the 8bitMMO world. I am mainly talking about animations here. For example an animation when you or another player use a telepad so everyone knows they teleported to somewhere else and not just quit the game. Or an animation when a player dies or gets hurt so you can tell what is going on. A message saying ''player X has died'' is not enough. We also need better animations when they already exist, for example the hammer animation. The weapon is a hammer but when you use it a red circle appears. It is too abstract and just doesn't make sense. Also when you level up a big window should pop up saying ''Congratulations you leveled up, you unlocked these blocks!''.

Root
Root is so bland and ugly. It is the first impression of the game, it should have awesome structures in it that make the players excited. Not only that, root is so outdated, you never add new telepads while there are so many towns, dungeons and PvP arenas that deserve to be linked to root. There is an empty spot with a sign saying ''TBD''. But the most pathetic thing in root must be the sign saying ''I accidently picked up your telepad and it's in your inventory now, lol. Find me later and trade it back to me.''. It's been there for at least two years! What do you think new players will think when they read a sign like that? Honestly, if you can't bother to fix that, why would a player bother to play your game?

Humour
One small thing that I also want to adress is the humour in the game. Humour in a game can work but it can impact the player in a negative way if they don't like it or get offended by it. Also the player might think you don't take your own game seriously. And if the dev doesn't take it seriously, why would the player? Personally I would've liked it more if we had more serious enemies like spiders, bears, ogres, pirates instead of hipsters, lawyercats and game critics.

 

The world
One thing that has always been a thorn in my side is the complete mess called wilderness. It makes the game look so chaotic and it really puts off new players. Go to the Steam reviews, everyone is complaining about it. The blocks of players who put less than 100 blocks down in the same area should decay. And ghost towns with barely anything in them should also decay. I will probably never understand why you protect junk placed down by players who will most likely never come back to the game ever again. Why do you favour gone players over active and new players? Again, I will never understand. Also, the floor of the wilderness should be like grass and random things like trees and flowers should grow out of it. The current dirt floor is so ugly imo.


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#2 RobbyZ

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Posted 11 November 2016 - 08:30 PM

Thanks for the feedback and all the cool stuff you've built over the years.  #1 builder ^



#3 Pika

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 02:07 AM

Root

Root is so bland and ugly. It is the first impression of the game, it should have awesome structures in it that make the players excited. Not only that, root is so outdated, you never add new telepads while there are so many towns, dungeons and PvP arenas that deserve to be linked to root. There is an empty spot with a sign saying ''TBD''. But the most pathetic thing in root must be the sign saying ''I accidently picked up your telepad and it's in your inventory now, lol. Find me later and trade it back to me.''. It's been there for at least two years! What do you think new players will think when they read a sign like that? Honestly, if you can't bother to fix that, why would a player bother to play your game?

This. This x 1000000 please get SOMEBODY to redesign it because it is ugly and a horrible place to look at! It's so boring as well!


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#4 Setk

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 07:00 AM

 

 Also, the floor of the wilderness should be like grass and random things like trees and flowers should grow out of it. The current dirt floor is so ugly imo.

 

There's this wonderful place called =66 ;P


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#5 nascarlaser1

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 01:05 PM

lol setk seems to be the optimist of all of us.....


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#6 Thanatos Hades

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 11:00 PM

I suppose being the most active player in the longest time frame. I should respond to this and point out some issues.

First let me say yes the game state has come to a sad decline in a lot of areas. It pains me to hear so much bad stuff said about it and much can't be argued against. The phase " the game is dead " is said so often fellow reapers are lined up and more keep coming. I do not want to see the game die but I understand why it's got to this point. I HOPE sim can keep it going and might some time get it going again.

 

However as it stands In no way is the game dead. It could be argued that it is on life support though and in a state of limbo but it is not dead. As long as it is still available and sim is still watching over it there is life.

 

Yea the player base is low and it's hard for a lot of players to justify staying but there are still players that come back from breaks and play again, there are still those of us who are still here, and there are still a lot of people that join on and off.


Although the low player count can be blamed on lack of updates, and many issues of the game that should be added or made better. There are two particular issues I really need to point out that I defiantly think are also reasons.

 

First the lack of peoples response to new players or even returning players is DREADFUL. Too often I see people come on and ask if anyone is on and NO ONE replies even though there are roughly 10 people online. That extra response is all it could take for that player to stay. Also I see a lot of times the first thing being asked is if there are any mayors on looking for new citizens. This one hurts the most because I have SEEN mayors online specifically LOOKING for players to add to their towns and yet when a new player asks they get no reply. Or players have to opposite problem where they have what it takes to build a town and want people to help build and want players to join and they get no one. It's SAD and a good reason for people to leave. The most helpful people I have generally seen in the past while has been erijon3 and most recently candi.

I know a lot of players prefer to play solo and don't have public towns. I myself am definitely guilty of this but at least let people know there are other people around to help if need be. Or to keep trying and watching chat for new players.

 

The Second. Is Trolls and trolling ( although this is far less an issue NOW ) As one of the main mods that cleans up junk in the wild I have come across a lot of places where it is pretty obvious that a player was getting trolled at the time they were trying to build. Although I can't say with certainty that is the reason the person quit. It's a really safe assumption to say a lot of people quit because of this. Like a LOT of people got trolled out there. Even if the person wasn't trolled at the time they were online. A lot of places I come across have blocks been placed in front of their doors so if the owner does come back they can't fix it unless they rebuild.

Mods do have the power to deal with this but unless they happen to come across the place the owner has to report the issue. Many people new players especially don't know this. Even if the player knows how to and does reports it. The report may not be received for a while and even if it is mods still have to wait 30 days to deal with it generally.


Moving to other issues.

 

I'm going to jump right to "The world" first.

 

"I will probably never understand why you protect junk placed down by players who will most likely never come back to the game ever again. Why do you favor gone players over active and new players? Again, I will never understand. Also, the floor of the wilderness should be like grass and random things like trees and flowers should grow out of it. The current dirt floor is so ugly imo."

 

The protecting of all the junk in the wild and specifically ghost towns.
Sim has done what he can to help this by giving mods the ability to remove stuff in the wild. This is limited to unfinished buildings, randomly placed blocks that serve little to no use, blocks that are just trolling places, and other such things that are considered garbage. This power can only be used in the wild and only if the owner has not logged in again for 30 or more days. This is to give adequate time to assume the owner will not be back to finish ( if it was a unfinished building ) and if they do chances are it would be better for them to have a fresh start anyways. If the person is/was responsible for trolling they get added to a special list that allows mods to clear up junk they place or have placed regardless of this time frame. Again one of the problems here is people need to report these issues or ask mods to clear up an area and the lack of mods to do so which is mostly just me doesn't help.

As far as Ghost Towns go. Towns in the wild that are owned by players who have quit or for whatever other reason will not or are unlikely ever to return, which remain empty or have little to nothing in it or are just full of junk. ) This has been a issue of concern for a long time and it's only gotten worse. I can not say I know the exact details BUT I think there is some legal issues in this regard to some extent. People pay real money to have the towns and they are such a crucial element to the game it's just not something that can be removed. Even if this wasn't an issue as far as I know sim doesn't have any way to remove them that is already programed meaning he would have to take the time to create a way to do it that is safe and bug free. I can not stress enough how much I agree that these ghost towns should be removed though. There are some completely empty ones out there that haven't seen the owners since the game was released. It's ridiculously a nuisance if you own land near them and it looks terrible on the map. The best Idea I could come up with is to set an amount of time that if a town has no activity from it's owner or any citizens then mods automatically become officials to allow them to do what they can to at least make them look nice. Even if all that means is covering the whole town in grass. It's better than having a big empty square of nothing.



Now then the suggestion of some kind of block removal or decay system.
This is not an acceptable idea because there is no way for such a system to adequately know what should and should not be removed or decay. The system would have to have an AI so advanced that if sim could make it he would be the next Bill Gates in an instant and be on the cover of all the tech magazines. Sure AI is getting pretty advanced but even the simplest AI system would be insane to have to create from scratch or cost sim a great deal to have someone else make it.

There is too much great buildings, pixel art, and other stuff that should remain even if a lot of it is basic noob structures. Even if the system was for like 2 or more years. There would still be the chance the AI removing stuff that people might not want removed because the owner did an amazing job. Also with the game state if that was the case the whole wild would be wiped out except for a few players who have remained active. Sadly in this case except to give mods more power to help clean the junk away and remove time restraints to allow removal of pure junk on sight regardless of the players activity. There's little more to be done. This is also a issue that isn't helped by the lack of cleaning mods.

 

On the issue of the wild. Sadly it does look terrible but it is far too late for it to be fixed. Covering the entirety of whats left in grass would cause many of the stuff that is already built to be buried. Well not buried but many of the places have doors that are on ground level and it looks bad when anything is placed in front of these places. It's a loss but at least the newest maps are covered in landscape. I have been going around adding land around various areas to try make places look better but it's a lot of time and costs a lot of grass or whatever.


Now to get into game content. This is a HUGE one. ( cough that's what she said cough ).

First off it should be pointed out that sim did not make the game to be a RPG. Although I honestly don't know why this was the case. It seemed that was what it was supposed to be from the start. A great deal has been added against Sim's wishes in this aspect in hopes to get more players to stay active. Things like the level system, achievements if your on steam, and the transponders have been added in hopes that it would help. Sim has tried a great deal and a lot of different things to try get players to stay. Sadly because this stuff was not really intended much of the stuff has had to be built from scratch. Not an easy task and time consuming.

Now that having been said I have to agree that there is so much that could have been done better and a great amount more
that should have been added and still should be added. Sim might as well be Santa given the list of ideas he has and gets from people.

 

Things from simply more basic building blocks, to fully functional items for home decoration, pets and vehicles, much more game content in general, better town management systems, and the list just goes on and on. I know a great deal of stuff is avoided to keep from being the same as other games or even more clone like of other games. Still it's impossible NOT to borrow from other games now. It might not have been the goal but sometimes you have to alter your course to get where you want to go.

 

As stated there needs to be much more content added. No you can't expect vast amounts of game content added over night from one developer when he has his hands tied with so much other stuff going on. However it shouldn't be unreasonable to expect some more blocks at the least every month. More levels is pointless when there's no reason to have them. They are mostly there to unlock stuff in the shop. The best goal system right now is to collect every rewardblock and sadly it is a messy system that is based on how well a player builds a dungeon. While others are just scattered around the wild. Some are well hidden :D Yes there is a list but it's not explained really well and the location system is a bit confusing to new players.

 

The whole dungeon system is super expensive and so much limitations and restrictions are implemented that it's hard to make one challenging and worth a players time. Other problems are due to bugs and not enough limitations on some items.

 

As for the Visuals. This can be viewed in a few different ways. Most importantly though the game is supposed to have a old school 8bit visual style and to that extent it is fine. However there is vast room for improvement and in some cases finished. The basic roofing tiles aren't even complete. If your trying to roof a building with lots of corners you will definitely find roof tiles don't line up right. The basic roof coloring is pretty plain and at least two tiles look identical with such a slight different coloring it's hard to see. You can download or make your own texture pack and change the way the tiles look but this is only for those who use the exact same textures and could look great for those but look terrible for those using a different pack or even the games own textures.

 

Root and the tutorial. Both of these have improved over time but definitely need more work and yes I agree with what is said about that sign and telepad.

 

Sadly I am a little at fault. My hub has been a work in progress for ages but a lot of that has been because I need stuff to be done or added. I have recently started working on it again but it's a huge place and poorly placed towns make it difficult to work around.

 

Sim assuming you read this. I've supported you and the game all this time and I will continue to do so but a great deal has been said and I simply have to agree with a lot of it. the good and some of the bad. Thanks for at least getting the map updated. :)